What about FIRE websites and books?

Financial Independence/Retire Early -- Learn How!
hocus
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Post by hocus »

I didn't know that I was required to participate on the SWR board.

You are not required, raddr. You say on a post above that the "Coin Toss" post is one of the best posts you have ever seen on any message board, and that you would like to see more of that type of post. I am giving you advice as to what you need to do to make that dream a reality.

"Coin Toss" posts don't just appear out of thin air. You need first to build the sort of community that is supportive of them, and then you begin to see a lot of them, as if by magic. This board no longer has the magic when it comes to SWR discussions. SWR discussions at this board have been polluted by word game posts and ridicule posts. If you want to see reasoned discussion of the SWR issue again at this board, you need to stand up to the posters who cause the pollution when you see it happening.

If you are not willing to do that, and you still desire "Coin Toss"-type posts, you need to build a new community that can support that kind of work. JWR1945 and me are going about the business of building a new community. We would love to have you join us in the event that your professed desire to see more "Coin Toss"-type posts in the future is genuine. I expect to be seeing a whole bunch of those sorts of posts in days to come at the SWR board.

That is where I landed after TMF and MSN and I consider both forums home and feel most comfortable there.

I find it hard to believe that someone could say that he feels "comfortable" engaging in a discussion of SWRs at this board. Anytime I see a thread at this board that mentions SWRs, my emotional reaction is to feel anxious and depressed.
hocus
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Post by hocus »

I am hoping that hocus will post [old TMF posts here]. (it is hard to find the old threads at TMF and some people (ES) want to avoid that place)

I don't have plans to post links to any of my old TMF posts here. I have no objection to any others doing so, however.

I want to see the TMF board and this board working in harmony as sister boards dedicated to helping people acquire information on how to achieve financial independence early in life. So I don't want to do anything to cause people not to visit the REHP board and to remain registered there.

I understand that some have expressed a desire to "avoid that place." It's hard for me not to feel some sympathy for that position, given my particular history with TMF. Even so, however, our core goal should be to build the FIRE movement (the "Wave"). I believe that it is a mistake for us not to take advantage of the eyeball-generation engine that the Motley Fool site provides, regardless of any personal distaste that some of us may rightly hold toward the owners of that site and the manner in which it is now administered.

The more constructive approach, in my view, is to change the manner in which the TMF site is administered. This is one of the initiatives that I will be bringing forward to the SWR board community next year. It is not the Information Seekers who built the REHP board who should walk away from it when DIsruptors come into conflict with them. The healthier development is for the Information Seekers to remain and grow stronger over time and for the Disruptors to grow weaker over time and leave.

My strategy is to let people know what goes on at the TMF boards, so that aspiring early retirees know that they cannot take advice offered at the REHP board as being reliable. At the same time, I do not want to discourage any from signing up at that board and beginning efforts to reclaim it for on-topic posting. If the desire for informed and honest information on the subject of early retirement is as strong as I believe it to be, that board will at some future day once again be the Most Valuable Resource on Planet Earth for Learning About Early Retirement, as it was back in the year 2000, when I was engaging in my successful effort to make the REHP one of the most successful boards in Motley Fool history.
hocus
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Post by hocus »

I found the Coin Toss post(124089). This perplexes me....since hocus simultaneously maintains that....
seems confused to me.

This is not the appropriate thread nor the appropriate board for discussing the ins and outs of the "Coin Toss" post, Ataloss. If you have a sincere desire to learn more about the implications of the ideas put forward in that post, please put up a post putting forward your questions at the SWR board, and me and the other community members participating there will do what we can to help you out.
therealchips
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Should the FAQ explain acronyms?

Post by therealchips »

for ataloss:

I have found another good review of Millionaire Next Door. It is at http://www.dealtime.com/xMPR-~PD-486536 ... ~RI-985455. It popped up when I was looking for a definition of PAW.
The authors define three categories of wealth-accumulators:

PAW's, or prodigious accumulators of wealth;
AAW's, or average accumulators of wealth;
UAW's, or under accumulators of wealth.

They give us a formula so that we can determine which category we're in.

Multiply your age times your realized pretax annual household income from all sources except inheritances. Divide by ten. This, less any inherited wealth, is what your net worth should be (to qualify as an AAW).

If you are forty, with a pretax income of $75,000, you would need a net worth of $300,000 to be an AAW. To be a PAW, you'd need to have (at least) twice the expected average, or a net worth of $600,000.

Net worth is defined as the total value of all assets, including retirement accounts, home equity, household furnishings, and possessions, minus all accumulated debt.

This then made me wonder if we have or should have an explanation of acronyms as part of a FAQ here. We could have a pointer to some other site to explain acronyms used all over the internet -- things such as
FWIW
IMNSHO
IMHO
IMO
IIRC
YMMV
WDIK
Then, maybe we need to explain acronyms that are more specific to financial planning -- things such as
PAW
LBYM
DCA
LTBH
ScV
ScB
ScG
LcV
LcB
LcG
VFINX, and even
FIRE

My lists are far from complete. WDIK? FWIW, I became a PAW and achieved FIRE through LBYM, DCA, and LTBH, mostly in VFINX, VTSMX, or the like. YMMV. :roll: IMO, we need to strike a balance between using acronyms to expedite writing and confusing readers by overdoing it. OTOH, maybe we shouldn't encourage alphabet soup at all.
He who has lived obscurely and quietly has lived well. [Latin: Bene qui latuit, bene vixit.]

Chips
wanderer
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Post by wanderer »

FWIW
IMNSHO
IMHO
IMO
IIRC
YMMV
WDIK
Then, maybe we need to explain acronyms that are more specific to financial planning -- things such as
PAW
LBYM
DCA
LTBH
ScV
ScB
ScG
LcV
LcB
LcG
VFINX, and even
FIRE

My lists are far from complete. WDIK? FWIW, I became a PAW and achieved FIRE through LBYM, DCA, and LTBH, mostly in VFINX, VTSMX, or the like. YMMV. IMO, we need to strike a balance between using acronyms to expedite writing and confusing readers by overdoing it. OTOH, maybe we shouldn't encourage alphabet soup at all.

LOL :lol:
regards,

wanderer

The field has eyes / the wood has ears / I will see / be silent and hear
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ataloss
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Post by ataloss »

I added a link to the review and a couple of acronym links (although I couldn't find a good one for investing terms)

ataloss
member AAAAA
Have fun.

Ataloss
therealchips
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How about the government's own IRA link?

Post by therealchips »

Hi, ataloss

Thanks for putting in those links. (What does AAAAA stand for?)

Some references on IRAs would be appropriate too. http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/page/0,,id=12598,00.html is the government's own current site on these matters. There may be a new URL annually for each new edition of the controlling publication, Pub. 590. At TMF, there has been a great deal of talk about taking IRA distributions early to support early retirement. This IRS site explains how to do that and what the income tax consequences are, I think, under index headings that begin Early Distributions.

IIRC, Intercst explicitly advocated using early IRA withdrawals, in part to avoid the heavier taxation that would result from delayed withdrawals. That argument was not persuasive to me, in my position and with my goals. Early IRA withdrawals might make someone's early retirement possible when otherwise it would be impossible, so I have no reason to suggest that people in general adopt my strategy. That strategy is summarized as Pay no taxes before you have to! I haven't paid a lot of attention to early IRA withdrawals. I plan to make my withdrawals only when tax law forces me to, starting in the year that I turn 70½, but my case is not of general interest to FIRE folk.
He who has lived obscurely and quietly has lived well. [Latin: Bene qui latuit, bene vixit.]

Chips
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ataloss
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Post by ataloss »

glad you asked:
American Association Against Acronym Abuse

I'll add the irs link
Have fun.

Ataloss
therealchips
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Jeremy Siegel, Stocks for the Long Run

Post by therealchips »

Searching just now here at NFB, I found that there have been 25 mentions of Siegel. I haven't read his book or spent much time at his site, but here is something for your consideration:
STOCKS FOR THE LONG RUN:
A Guide to Selecting Markets for Long Term Growth
by Jeremy J. Siegel

Review: http://www.banned-books.com/truth-seeke ... slong.html I think the latest edition is from 2002.

Jeremy Siegel's site at http://www.jeremysiegel.com/ requires registration but there is no fee.
Financial market data since 1802. Download the data series behind Stocks for the Long Run and conduct your own analysis. (at about $100 per selection)

New and updated charts and tables from Stocks for the Long Run. (at about $10 per selection)

Market Commentary, articles, and interviews written by and about Professor Siegel. (evidently free)


I heard Siegel on TV a few days ago estimating returns in US stocks. I think he said 5% to 7% annual average over the next few years. Did anyone else hear him?

Editted to put in estimated prices.
He who has lived obscurely and quietly has lived well. [Latin: Bene qui latuit, bene vixit.]

Chips
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ataloss
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Post by ataloss »

I'll add it




ataloss

In the long run, we're all dead.
John Maynard Keynes
Have fun.

Ataloss
wanderer
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Post by wanderer »

click on books or articles. From the book titled: Y: blue whales have a ten foot penis. :shock:

http://www.peterlbernsteininc.com/reads.htm
regards,

wanderer

The field has eyes / the wood has ears / I will see / be silent and hear
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ataloss
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Post by ataloss »

wow!
Have fun.

Ataloss
therealchips
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Free online financial calculators

Post by therealchips »

Moving past any possible anatomy envy, let me suggest this site: http://www.fincalc.com/. Calculators there offer quick (but possibly over-simplified) answers to questions like these:

How will retirement impact my cost of living? (not written yet)
How much will I need to save for retirement?
What retirement can I afford on my current course? (not written yet)
Social Security retirement income estimator
What is the impact of inflation on retirement spending? (not written yet)
I'm retired, how long will my money last? (not written yet)
I'm retired, what is my life expectancy? (not written yet)
Should I try to convert discretionary funds to savings?
Becoming a millionaire
Income generated by a savings plan.
How long will it take to double my money?
How long until my savings reach my goal?
Save now vs. save later calculator
How much should I save to reach my goal?
What will my current savings grow to?
What is the rate of return on an investment?
How do taxes and inflation impact my return?
What is my effective annual yield?
I don't have a lot of experience with these free online financial calculators, so someone else may know of better ones.
He who has lived obscurely and quietly has lived well. [Latin: Bene qui latuit, bene vixit.]

Chips
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